villagegirl -probably not brothers with baseball bats. Loss of privileges, subtle shunning, and leaking gossip should do the trick for most slow-payers.
Juan Viejo2
JoinedPosts by Juan Viejo2
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
warehouse - While I agree with 90% of what you say, how does that become as "fanatical as organizational JW doctrine?"
What are you saying? That I am as fanatical as the Watchtower? That my contact who is genuinely trying to keep me and others reading this thread informed - is somehow being "fanatical"?
While I do not want to start a cat fight with you or anyone else on this forum, your tossing out snippy little remarks like that does not add to the discussion.
How does this qualify as a "conspiracy." Who among us are working together to use this information to bring down the Watchtower or anyone else?
How is this "fanatical"? Relaying inside information and then critiquing and discussing it is "fanatical"?
I clearly stated in the very first sentence of the fourth paragraph that it was conjecture on my part - not something cast in stone or actually factual. Am I not allowed to express my opinion about the future of Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower without being branded "fanatical"?
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
Since it was my contact that implied that at some point elders might sit down with "family heads" and "single brothers" and review their past years' tax returns to see it they could agree on how much could be donated on a regular basis - let me clarify and add my own 2p to the mix:
Such a move would most likely be "voluntary" or "suggested" as a way to "help the brothers" calculate what would be "fair and reasonable for them."
But we all know what "voluntary" and "suggested" would mean in a Watchtower environment. Remember that 1975 was only "suggested" by Fred Franz as the "possible arrival of Armageddon." Look what JWs did in the years prior to that - selling properties, quitting jobs, moviing to where the "need was greater." The Watchtower often uses this approach to ease the flock into something that they will later establish as hard and fast policy.
Also remember that those who are approached and "offered this" financial counseling will be hard pressed to refuse because of the hammer of "resisting the direction of Jehovah's organization" can lead to loss of privileges and accusations of being "spiritually weak." We all know where that leads. It's all WT blackmail and intimidation. We see it in action as almost an ingrained method of getting compliance.
I can see it being handled this way: "Brother Wimply. Perhaps we could sit down and discuss your family's finances to see if we can help you budget for your planned (weekly, monthly, quarterly) donation amount. (In the USA) you can deduct those donations on your income taxes. Perhaps we could have Brother H. R. Block sit down with you at a computer and see if a larger donation would be offset by increased tax deductions - thereby not creating an undo burden on you or your family. This is purely voluntary on your part, but the elder body wants to be sure that everyone is carrying their fair share of the congregation's commitment to the worldwide preaching and building work. This tax review is another loving arrangement provided by Jehovah to help you."
The Watchtower might even come up with a computer program that would do this on a local laptop manipulated by a trained elder or MS. Bringing along last year's tax forms would be "voluntary" (yeah, sure!), but without them (the elders would reason convincingly) an accurate estimate could not be calculated.
It is true, at least in the USA, that some taxpayers will actually increase their contributions by a substantial amount on the advice of their accountant or tax advisor. A difference in net income could move them down to a lower tax bracket or allow them to take additional deductions in another category (medical expenses, for example). If the brother owns his own business, especially as a sole proprietor or LLC, and makes the contribution from a business account rather than a personal account - the benefits might actually put him in a far better tax bracket.
I think this was the possibility that my contact was hinting at for further out in the future. Maybe, if the Watchtower has been following this thread, talk of such a possibility and the ramifications might make them re-think implementing such a policy. Or, maybe it was all just a false rumor and now we have given the Watchtower something to actually consider doing in the future.
Who really knows? I certainly don't. But as my contact emphasized in our last conversation, "They don't call rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses 'the other sheep' without good reason. The majority will drink the kool-aid and do what they are told. Those that don't will give up their families. Tax returns? Petty stuff and not a big deal to the average JW, especially married brothers with dedicated sisters for wives."
All we can do is watch. All we know is that there is something afoot at WT headquarters and we will see a lot of changes in coming months to rival what we have seen since the Governing Body declared themselves the "Slave."
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
Hoser - that did not come from this particular BOE letter. This was from an insider describing future possibilities, not current practices. Go back and read. The tax return situation was based on information provided by a Bethel insider - and may have been based on hearsay. It was only presented as a possible solution to family heads not giving enough in monthly contributions. It may not be applied to those who are meeting their monthly commitments.
I did forget to mention that my contact suggested that future Watchtower magazines will discuss "family budgeting" and "reducing personal expenses" so that the brothers can find more funds to donate each month. Watch for them - as my contact says they are already being drafted.
JV
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12
Microsoft drops Windows XP Support Today
by Iamallcool ini have windows xp.
you have one too?
what did you replace it with?.
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Juan Viejo2
Just because Microsoft has stopped supporting XP does not mean it will stop working. Your computer will continue to run as before. Microsoft will just not answer support questions or provide any more updates. Go to a used book store and buy a book about XP operations. Much better service that way than ever trying to call Microsoft or try to use their website for fixing a problem. I have it on my laptop and it will continue to work fine for the next couple of years.
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
In case anyone hasn't noticed - the Watchtower claims that the funds will be "used for the worldwide work." Let's take another look at that:
"Worldwide" - encyclopedic description: covering the entire planet
"Entire Planet" - encylcopedic description: Every continent, every country, every island, every community on the earth.
Watchtower Defiinitions:
"Worldwide" - Africa, Asia, Middle East, Pacific Islands - but never your location, even when you live in one of those places.
"Entire Planet" - Mostly mid-state New York and a couple places in the UK and Europe, but never your location.
"Worldwide Work" - investments in hedge funds, more farm land in New York, some in Canada and other metropolitan areas around the world. Legal expenses. Child abuse settlements.
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
For anyone who might still be doubting the new donation arrangement story, please be sure to read Cedars post about it on JWSurvey.org. Cedars and I both have copies of the BOE letter that outlines much of what we have been discussing, but distribution of the letter will be limited somewhat and can not be made widely available for a while. Those of you who are elders should see the letter within the next few days. Those who are not should hear the first page read in the Kingdom Halls sometime near the end of April.
As to the other details - some are included in the 3-page attachment to the BOE letter, but none of that will be shared with the rank and file, and maybe not with all elders - only those with major assignments.
So just to clear things up - the BOE letter is real The 3 page attachment is real. Changes are definitely going to take place.
What I have shared here from my insider contacts (who will forever remain anonymous for obvious reasons) includes some conjecture and suppositions, but they are based on documents and conversations with insiders deep within the Watchtower headquarters. So some of those things may turn out to be true, and some may never occur. At this point even the insiders can't be sure - much of it is based on rumors.
The one thing those of us who have been around the block with the JWs over the years can be sure of is this: Jehovah's Witnesses love to gossip. If they are in the know, they will want to share it with someone. Being in the know is seen as having stature in the congregation - that's why elderettes are great sources of inside information. I learned more about what was going on in our Kingdom Hall by riding in a car full of elders' wives than from any Watchtower or Informant bulletin. The same applies to volunteers working in Bethel and Watchtower HQ. They love to share inside knowledge with their friends and family. Even those who work clerical jobs will hear or see confidential information in their offices - and the odds are that some will share what they know with their friends. So there is always a small stream of information that gets out before the official announcements are made.
So let's enjoy what we can find out from whatever insider sources we might have. Some information will be wrong. Some will be changed before implementation. Some will be changed because we knew it first and now the WT wants to make us all look like idiots.
I personally believe that most of the higher level Watchtower managers spend a lot of time reading this forum and several other major JW discussion websites. In fact, one of my insider contacts told me that JWN was one of the sites that almost everyone at HQ visits at least once a week. I can see hits from the Watchtower's IP addresses on my websites and AAWA.co all the time - as is the case with JWSurvey.
So don't be too quick to discount occasional reports of insider informatiion. Just expect that some of it won't pan out - just like rumors and news on TV and radio and the Internet regarding political moves and entertainer gossip.
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
I just got another email from my contact:
"Just got off the phone with a very deep insider. He told me that a form of 'theocratic tithing' was being discussed, but has been tabled for now. How would it work? Very simple and quite sneaky as well. One of the elders would be assigned the duty of sitting down with each family head and go over the family tax forms for the past year - the ones actually filed with the IRS or however it is done in other countries (remember some countries don't have direct income taxes like the US.) At first this would be entirely voluntary, but to refuse might be considered "resisting Jehovah or the holy spirit" or a sign of "spirtual weakness."
"In effect, the congregation would be 'tithed' but not at the traditional 10% expected by some churches (Mormons). The Watchtower leadership has taken note that churches that do tithe are often among the richest and their membership seems to be more dedicated (Mormons, some pentecostals, Scientology). They are trying to learn from their competitors who always seem to be unbelievably wealthy in spite of their often poor members. After all, what is 'everlasting life' worth. Would rank and file JWs risk their eternal lives by not giving what they promised - after all - Jehovah knows! You can't get past the all-seeing-eyes of the holy spirit. Observed from that point of view, and understanding how much crap JWs put up with already, it's almost a sure thing that the Watchtower can pull this off and totally get away with it."
He offered more - but it would be too far fetched for most of the readers and posters of JWN. So I will stop there and comment elsewhere.
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
Tech49 - it could be that the local congregation won't have to "send in their contributions to the WT." Since the WT will be co-owners of all local accounts (where local laws allow for dual ownership), they can just reach in and transfer the money themselves. Not all states or countries allow co-ownership of bank accounts, but the local KH could set up an automatic payment arrangement for a certain minimum each month and then send additional payments if there are more funds available.
JV
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324
Is this new donation arrangement for real?
by nugget injust read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.
congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.
congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.
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Juan Viejo2
Quarterback - Have it your way. Check back in a year and see what happens. My contact has made it very clear that we haven't seen anything yet and changes over the next 24-48 months will make the WT look very different than what we know now.
JV